12/7

Elin Nordegren’s Prayer

Dear Lord,

I pray for wisdom to understand my man,
Love to forgive him,
And patience with his failings,
Because if I pray for strength,
I'll beat him to death.

Amen


12/9

A recent study found out which days men prefer to have sex. Surprisingly, It was found they prefer days beginning with the letter "T." Examples:

Tuesday
Thursday
Today
Tomorrow
The Day After That
Thanksgiving
Thaturday
Thunday


12/11

If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.

-- Albert Einstein


12/14

Whaddaya mean, “last call?” I just got here!


12/18

Liberals are constantly accusing Christians of being intolerant and self-righteous, but the most earnest Christian has never approached the preachy intolerance of a liberal who has just discovered a lit cigarette in a nonsmoking section.

-- Ann Coulter


12/21

Anyone who believes that men are the equal of women has never seen a man try to wrap a Christmas present.

-- Christina Dodd


12/22

The more a person talks about what he is going to do, the less he talks about what he has done.


12/23

If you have talent and work long and hard, anything in the world can be yours if you have enough money.

11/2

The accent is on youth today, but the stress is on parents.


11/3

Cogito, Ergo…

Problem: Most accidents occur at home and in traffic.
Solution: Sell your house and your car.


11/4

The iBoob

Apple announced today it has developed a breast implant that can store and play music. The iBoob will cost $499 to $699, depending on cup and speaker size. Apple touts the product as a major social breakthrough, because women are always complaining about men staring at their breasts and not listening to them.


11/5

Accuracy is to a newspaper what virtue is to a lady, but a newspaper can always print a retraction.

-- Adlai Stevenson


11/6

It's better to be a nobody who accomplishes something than a somebody who accomplishes nothing.


11/9

Two things are required to accomplish something: a definite idea, and not quite enough time.


11/12


In filling out a tax return, let an accountant, instead of your conscience, be your guide.

-- Will Rogers


11/16

A man can do more than he thinks he can, but he usually does less than he thinks he does.


11/17

The more accomplishments you have, the less you are apt to accomplish.


11/18

A recent survey discovered the three reasons men get out of bed in the middle of the night:

83 % -- To use the bathroom
5 % -- To get a drink of water
12 % -- To go home


11/19

The Perfect Breakfast, As a Man Sees It

You’re sitting at the kitchen table, and your son is on the box of Wheaties, your mistress is on the cover of Playboy, and your wife is on the back of the milk carton.


11/20

The fastest way to a man’s heart is through his chest with a very sharp knife.


11/23

How I Learned to Mind My Own Business

I was walking past the mental hospital the other day, and all the patients were shouting, “13...13...13.”

The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a little gap in the planks, so I looked through to see what was going on. Someone poked me in the eye with a stick.

Then they all started shouting, “14....14....14.”

10/1

Texas-English Dictionary

ORT: Paintings, sculptures and such.
BARE: Alcoholic beverage made from barley and hops.
MUNTS: A calendar division of approximately 30 days.
ALL: Petroleum-based lubricant.
HALF DRUNK: Blood alcohol level four or more times higher than the legal limit.


10/2

Children seldom misquote you. Instead, they repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.


10/5

Cleaning your house while your children are growing
Is like shoveling the sidewalk before it stops snowing


10/6

Church is the only place I know where I can arrive late and still get the best seats in the house.


10/7

Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bulls--- before.


10/8

Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.


10/9

That guy who lost his entire left side in a saw mill accident? He's all right now.


10/12

Jellyfish gas: What happens when they eat too many jellybeans.


10/13

The capacity for getting into trouble and the ability to get out of it are seldom combined in the same person.


10/14

The ability to speak several languages is valuable, but sometimes the ability to keep your mouth shut in one of them is priceless.


10/15

Never judge the ability of a doctor by the amount of praise the undertakers give him.


10/16

The chief ability of a chief executive should be the ability to recognize ability.


10/19

The Corleone Doctrine

There is a vast difference between a brother who is notable and the brother who is not able.


10/20

I am my parents' child. I inherited my mother's ability to spend money and my father's inability to make it.


10/21

Ability is a good thing. Stability is better.


10/22

Failing to be there when her man wants her is a woman's greatest sin, except to be there when he doesn't.

-- Helen Rowland


10/23

A day away from some people is like a month in the country.

-- Howard Dietz


10/26

You appreciate some people most when they deprive you of their company.


10/27

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, but presents bring better results.


10/28

Once during Prohibition, I was forced to live forced to live for days on nothing but food and water.

-- W.C. Fields


10/29

Teetotalers are always conspicuous by their abstinence.


10/30

Man is the only animal that speaks, except when he talks like an ass.

(The following was written by site administrator and frequent CD contributor Joe McQuade.)


When Civil Discourse was born on May 8, 2000, I had two ambitions: Provide a web platform for high-minded debate, and get in on the action myself. More than nine years in, I like to think I've met both goals, although the second has come more easily than the first.

Actually, keeping CD civil has been much easier than I expected. The vast majority of our members understand what we're trying to do. Our mission statement, our rules and – most importantly – our contributors have set a clear standard through the years that is rarely disrespected.

In almost a decade, I've had to expel only a half-dozen or so flamers. I delete on average about one inappropriate post per month. That's a bounce rate of less than half of one percent, and almost all of those were generated by that handful of posters who are no longer with us. Sometimes entire seasons pass without a single rules infraction. These are remarkable statistics of which the entire CD community can be proud.

Our site has had two brief lapses into unpleasantness, however. The first, almost two years ago, involved leftist flamers driven mad by Hillary Clinton's campaign problems. The second, recently concluded, involved a small pocket of passionate conservatives. In both cases the rules violators charged me with using my moderator powers to persecute them for ideological reasons.

While it is true my politics are centrist, I think that charge is unsustainable for two reasons. First, my dispassionate application of the rules (See Rules of CD below) has affected liberals, moderates and conservatives. I have deleted inappropriate posts that defended positions with which I agree. And yes, sometimes I even delete my own posts. Second, my moderator powers are invoked so infrequently that the charge of biased oppression is absurd on its face.

Yet there is no denying that as both participant and referee, I have a conflict of interest. This conflict occasionally leads passionate debate adversaries of mine to conclude they're not getting a fair shake on the site. Although I can – and just did – demonstrate this is not true, the sentiment is understandable, particularly given my sometimes pointed debating style.

Anytime anyone is zinged in debate, his first reaction is, "Hey, that answer's not fair!" Whether that's accurate or not, it just happens. But when the debate adversary is also the rules enforcer, it is a short – if unwarranted – leap to "This moderator's unfair," or "This site is unfair."

I am aware of this dynamic, and it can cause a more significant problem. My awkward position has at times induced me to err on the side of leniency when a debate opponent violated site guidelines. (Rules 1, 4 and 5 below are where most of the action is.) I learned in the most recent controversy that such permissiveness only makes matters worse.

That is a mistake I intend never to repeat. Meanwhile, I'll strive to minimize my own tart prose, because it leads some people to mistaken conclusions about the site's management. In return, I'll ask anyone who sees me falling short in either effort to lodge objections via the Report button, not in subsequent posts.

In a boutique forum such as ours, this is the only way to deal with what is, in the end, a relatively minor issue. As Bill Buckley used to say when his sailboat systems failed in mid-ocean, "Where there is no solution, there is no problem."

Here's hoping this message clears up any confusion about my dual roles – and helps ensure that our two brief flare-ups will be our last.


===================================================================================


Rules of Civil Discourse

Welcome to Civil Discourse, a respite from the silliness, noise and fury that typify so much modern debate - especially on the Internet. Our goal is to attract thoughtful people who will exercise their ideas and learn from others in stimulating, courteous, well written colloquies. This forum endorses no ideology or bias, save a love of civil and intelligent conversation. Here are some guidelines for those who would like to contribute.


1. We are looking for substantive entries instead of wisecracks, crafted arguments in place of breezy chatter. This is a meeting place of ideas, not personalities. Our editors delete inane and inappropriate postings, ensuring that readers won't have to wade through reams of filler in search of an interesting point. Posts may be deleted if they contain insults, attacks on a contributor instead of his ideas, obscenity, sloppy composition, or non-substantive prose.

2. Postings may be of any length, although most range from that of a typical letter to the editor to an op-ed newspaper piece. If your submission is 1,500 words and you are still composing, you might be squeezing multiple postings into one.

3. If your entry will be longer than a few paragraphs, you and your readers might be better served if you compose and edit offline on Word or a similar program, then cut-and-paste onto a new-conversation or reply template. This is a suggestion, not a requirement.

4. Readers who object to a post because of vocabulary or tone are not permitted to lodge their complaints in a subsequent post. Even if the offending post violates the rules of Civil Discourse, such responses are digressions from the topic, and they lead to the squabbling that CD tries scupulously to avoid. Instead, readers with such complaints should click the Report button that appears at the bottom of each post and inform the site adminstrator of his concerns. Complainants who wish to receive a personal reply about how the matter was addressed should include their names in the report. If the reader is not satisfied with the resolution, he can activate the Ignore User tool found under the My Controls link atop every CD page.

5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse's purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away.

6. Please don't take from these guidelines the idea that Civil Discourse is staid or humorless. You will find plenty of irreverent, even wicked, wit in these pages - and lots of lively prose. What you will not find is the rushed, interruptive belligerence that now dominates the media. We like to think of this as an oasis from the clamor of modern life. There is plenty of room here for like-minded people. So invite your friends, and let's all get Civilized.

9/1

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no life guard.


9/2

A married couple was in a terrible car accident, and the woman's face was burned severely. The doctor told the husband they couldn't graft any skin from her body because she was so thin. The husband then donated some of his own skin, but the only place suitable was from his buttocks.

After the surgery, everyone was astounded by the woman's new beauty. She said, "Dear, I just want to thank you for everything you did for me. There is no way I could ever repay you."

"Oh don't worry," he replied. "I get repaid every time your mother comes over and kisses you on the cheek."


9/3

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and asked him to forgive me.


9/4

I went to an extremely attractive female doctor for my annual checkup. She told me I should quit masturbating. I asked why.

"Because," she said, "I am trying to examine you."


9/8

You Know It's Summer in Texas When…

-- Birds have to use potholders to pull worms out of the ground.
-- Trees are whistling for the dogs.
-- Farmers feed their chickens crushed ice to keep them from laying boiled eggs.
-- Your biggest bicycle wreck fear is, "What if I get knocked out and end up lying on the pavement and cook to death?"


9/9

Blessed is he who, having nothing to say, refrains from giving wordy evidence of that fact.


9/10

Men marry women hoping they won't change.

Women marry men hoping they will change.

Both are usually disappointed.


9/11

Proof That Men Have Better Friends...

Friendship among Women:
A woman doesn't come home one night. The next morning she tells her husband she slept over at a friend's house. The man calls his wife's 10 best friends. None of them know anything about it.

Friendship among Men:
A man doesn't come home one night. The next morning he tells his wife he slept over at a friend's house. The woman calls her husband's 10 best friends. Eight confirm he had slept at his place, and two say he is still there.


9/14

When I was younger I hated going to weddings. It seemed that all of the aunts would come up to me, poke me in the ribs and cackle, "You're next!"

They stopped that after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.


9/15

Why Men Should Write Advice Columns…

Dear John:

I hope you can help me. The other day, I set off for work, leaving my husband in the house watching TV. My car started stalling and then broke down about a mile down the road and I had to walk back to get my husband's help. When I got home, I couldn't believe my eyes. He was in our bedroom with the neighbors's daughter.

I am 32, my husband is 34, and the neighbor's daughter is 19. We have been married for ten years. When I confronted him, he broke down and admitted they had been having an affair for the past six months.

He won't go to counseling and I'm a mess and need advice urgently. Can you please help?

Sincerely,

Sheila

Dear Sheila:

A car stalling after being driven a short distance can be caused by a variety of faults with the engine. Start by checking that there is no debris in the fuel line. If it is clear, check the vacuum pipes and hoses on the intake manifold, then check all grounding wires.

If none of these approaches solves the problem, it could be that the fuel pump itself is faulty, causing low delivery pressure to the injectors.

I hope this helps...

John


9/16

Life ashore isn't distasteful to me. But life at sea is better.

-- Sir Francis Drake


9/17

Take my wives, please.

-- Henny the Eighth


9/18

Death is life's way of telling you you're fired.


9/21

An elderly lady answered a knock on the door one morning and found a well dressed young man carrying a vacuum cleaner. "Go away!" she said. "I'm broke and I don't need a vacuum cleaner. haven't got any money!"

In a flash, the young man wedged his foot in the door and pushed it open. "Don't be too hasty!" he said. "Not until you have at least seen my demonstration." With that, he emptied a bucket of horse manure onto her hallway carpet.

"If this vacuum cleaner does not remove all traces of this from your carpet, Madam, I will personally eat the remainder."

The lady turned for the kitchen. "Well, let me get you a fork, because they cut off my electricity this morning."


9/22

A Higher Power

A Sunday school teacher addressed her class. ""We have been learning how powerful kings and queens were in biblical times. But there is a higher power. Can anyone tell me what it is?

One child blurted, "Aces!"


9/23

Deciding not to choose is making a choice.


9/24

Drugs might lead to nowhere, but at least they take the scenic route.

-- Steven Wright


9/25

After having dug to a depth of 10 feet, New York scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 100 years. They concluded their ancestors had a telephone network more than a centuy ago.

In the weeks that followed a California archaeologist dug to a depth of 20 feet and made a similar finding. His conclusion: California had an advanced communications network 100 years before New York.

One week later Bubba Rathbone, a self-taught Texas archaeologist, excavated to a depth of 30 feet in his pasture near Cut-n-Shoot, finding nothing. His conclusion: 300 years ago, Texas had already gone wireless.


9/28

New Jersey State Slogan

Hey, we hate you, too!


9/29

I’d kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.

-- Stephen Wright


9/30

If cats and dogs didn’t have fur, would we still pet them?

-- George Carlin

CD does not welcome the airing of personal grievances within discussions. Generally they are taken up with the moderator through the "report" button at the bottom of each post. Occasionally it is worthwhile to discuss such matters here. We reserve the right to delete such exchanges if they cease to be constructive.

Editor's note: The following post by Michael Major appeared in slightly different form in "Maintaining Civil Discourse" (Forum on Forums):


I think a huge percentage of the problem here may be more in the somewhat sweeping language that Sharky used rather than in the underlying point that he was making.

If I may recast it, it would go something like this: Five decades ago, a majority of Americans, driven by compassion, enacted a variety of social programs which were intended to alleviate the poverty and suffering of the impoverished among us, particularly that of African Americans. In spite of our good intentions, a substantial percentage of the black population responded rationally to the incentives that were put in place through those programs, modifying their behavior in ways that would maximize their entitlements. Those were rational though unanticipated responses which resulted in further disruption in urban blacks' nuclear family structure. Over the years, it became clear to some that the cost to those families was greater than any good they reaped from the intervention. In reaction to that, they called for an end to those programs. The Democratic Party fought against those calls and the reduction of those programs, and as a result, African Americans became convinced that the Democratic Party represented their interests. In return, the Democratic Party dug in even further in the strategy of defending entitlements to the impoverished.

That is the basic point that Sharky was trying to make, IMO. I think that narrative is largely true. I understand that there are many who believe the cost/benefit analysis leans the other way and that entitlements should be continued or expanded, and believe that sincerely, not as a craven political strategy. And I also understand that there are those on the other side who want to curtail entitlements because of racial animosity, not because they want to get rid of perverse incentives. But that doesn't condemn the argument itself.

One more item: I think it's waaay too easy to label people as lazy who don't hold regular jobs. I've seen studies that show the amount of time and effort that welfare recipients spend doing lots of other things to harvest all sorts of other income, from babysitting the neighborhood, to building support networks of neighbors and family, to learning all the ins and outs of other support groups and agencies, to under-the-radar entrepreneurial enterprises, all of which involves getting out and rustling for themselves. It's not the sort of traditional employment that would defend against the perception of laziness so it's often overlooked.

8/3

A clear conscience is usually a sign of bad memory.

-- Steven Wright


8/4

Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt.

-- Herbert Hoover


8/5

Brain cells come, and brain cells go. But fat cells live forever.


8/6

Contentment is found not in having what you want, but in wanting what you have.


8/7

Copying from one is plagiarism. Copying from two is research.


8/10

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak. Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

-- Winston Churchill


8/11

Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.

-- Harold S. Hulbert


8/12

Clothes do make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.

-- Mark Twain


8/13

Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves. They will never cease to be amused.


8/14

Borrow money from pessimists. They don't expect it back.


8/17

Monday is an awful way to spend one seventh of your life.

-- Stephen Wright

8/18

I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.


8/19

I joined a health club last year, spent about 400 bucks. Haven't lost a pound.

Apparently you have to go there.


8/20

Every time I start thinking too much about how I look, I just find a Happy Hour. By the time I leave, I look just fine.


8/21

You know you're getting old when you tell a cashier, "Wait, I might have exact change."


8/24

LIfe might not be the party we hope for, but while we're here we should dance.


8/25

Birthday Reminder...

This week we celebrate a special birthday: Monica Lewinsky turns 44.

Can you believe it? It seems like only yesterday she was crawling around the White House on her hands and knees and putting everything in her mouth. They grow up so fast.


8/26

Maxine Says...

Do you know what happened 159 years ago this fall...back in 1850?

California became a state. The people had no electricity. The state had no money. Almost everyone spoke Spanish. There were gunfights in the streets. So basically nothing has changed except the women had real boobs and the men didn't hold hands.


8/27

Blowing out another's candle will not make your shine brighter.


8/28

Criticism should always leave people with the feeling they have been helped.


8/31

Be positive isn't my blood type, but it's in my blood.

Dear Civil Discourse members,

There is good news for those who are disheartened by the recent ugly turn this web site has taken: The disturbance ends now.

Below you will see the new paragraph just added to the rules of Civil Discourse. The rules are available in their entirety in "Rules of Civil Discourse" in Forum on Forums.

"5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse’s purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away."


Three related announcements:

1. Enforcement of the new rule will be swift and certain. Offending posts will be deleted and returned to their originators, with explanation attached. Failure to conform to the new rule can entail short, medium or permanent suspensions from CD, as the facts dictate.

2. Most and perhaps all posts in this thread concerning the recent troubles will be deleted beginning at 7 p.m. eastern tonight.

3. Previous posts that violate the new rule will remain, though they might be deleted if their originators earn suspensions in the future.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Dear Civil Discourse members,

There is good news for those who are disheartened by the recent ugly turn this web site has taken: The disturbance ends now.

Below you will see the new paragraph just added to the rules of Civil Discourse. The rules are available in their entirety in "Rules of Civil Discourse" in Forum on Forums.

"5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse’s purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away."


Three related announcements:

1. Enforcement of the new rule will be swift and certain. Offending posts will be deleted and returned to their originators, with explanation attached. Failure to conform to the new rule can entail short, medium or permanent suspensions from CD, as the facts dictate.

2. Most and perhaps all posts in this thread concerning the recent troubles will be deleted beginning at 7 p.m. eastern tonight.

3. Previous posts that violate the new rule will remain, though they might be deleted if their originators earn suspensions in the future.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Dear Civil Discourse members,

There is good news for those who are disheartened by the recent ugly turn this web site has taken: The disturbance ends now.

Below you will see the new paragraph just added to the rules of Civil Discourse. The rules are available in their entirety in "Rules of Civil Discourse" in Forum on Forums.

"5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse’s purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away."


Three related announcements:

1. Enforcement of the new rule will be swift and certain. Offending posts will be deleted and returned to their originators, with explanation attached. Failure to conform to the new rule can entail short, medium or permanent suspensions from CD, as the facts dictate.

2. Most and perhaps all posts in this thread concerning the recent troubles will be deleted beginning at 7 p.m. eastern tonight.

3. Previous posts that violate the new rule will remain, though they might be deleted if their originators earn suspensions in the future.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Dear Civil Discourse members,

There is good news for those who are disheartened by the recent ugly turn this web site has taken: The disturbance ends now.

Below you will see the new paragraph just added to the rules of Civil Discourse. The rules are available in their entirety in "Rules of Civil Discourse" in Forum on Forums.

"5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse’s purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away."


Three related announcements:

1. Enforcement of the new rule will be swift and certain. Offending posts will be deleted and returned to their originators, with explanation attached. Failure to conform to the new rule can entail short, medium or permanent suspensions from CD, as the facts dictate.

2. Most and perhaps all posts in this thread concerning the recent troubles will be deleted beginning at 7 p.m. eastern tonight.

3. Previous posts that violate the new rule will remain, though they might be deleted if their originators earn suspensions in the future.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Dear Civil Discourse members,

There is good news for those who are disheartened by the recent ugly turn this web site has taken: The disturbance ends now.

Below you will see the new paragraph just added to the rules of Civil Discourse. The rules are available in their entirety in "Rules of Civil Discourse" in Forum on Forums.

"5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse’s purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away."


Three related announcements:

1. Enforcement of the new rule will be swift and certain. Offending posts will be deleted and returned to their originators, with explanation attached. Failure to conform to the new rule can entail short, medium or permanent suspensions from CD, as the facts dictate.

2. Most and perhaps all posts in this thread concerning the recent troubles will be deleted beginning at 7 p.m. eastern tonight.

3. Previous posts that violate the new rule will remain, though they might be deleted if their originators earn suspensions in the future.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Dear Civil Discourse members,

There is good news for those who are disheartened by the recent ugly turn this web site has taken: The disturbance ends now.

Below you will see the new paragraph just added to the rules of Civil Discourse. The rules are available in their entirety in "Rules of Civil Discourse" in Forum on Forums.

"5. The rules of Civil Discourse are loose and lenient by design. On rare occasions this leaves the site vulnerable to obnoxious posters who stop just short of insulting fellow contributors personally. Posts that bitterly attack the intelligence, integrity or patriotism of those who espouse different views violate the spirit of the site. Civil Discourse’s purpose is as simple as its name. This is a safe harbor for thoughtful people who are tired of the barking that so often passes for debate in the media. We will not allow hostile contributors to subvert that aim and chase conscientious members away."


Three related announcements:

1. Enforcement of the new rule will be swift and certain. Offending posts will be deleted and returned to their originators, with explanation attached. Failure to conform to the new rule can entail short, medium or permanent suspensions from CD, as the facts dictate.

2. Most and perhaps all posts in this thread concerning the recent troubles will be deleted beginning at 7 p.m. eastern tonight.

3. Previous posts that violate the new rule will remain, though they might be deleted if their originators earn suspensions in the future.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Joe McQuade here. Forgive the byline. I didn't realized when I posted I was still signed in as my alter ego...


tbrmskss, I don't know your gender, but you appear to be Da Man on this issue: knowledgeable, rational, intellectually honest, non-ideological, courteous, able to express complex concepts simply and clearly.

If it's not too much to ask, could you give those of us who are at sea on this issue but really wish to understand it a brief primer on the subject? You might draft it as you wish, or just answer the following questions.

1. What is good and bad about the present system?
2. What are the competing alternative models, and what are their pros and cons?
3. To what extent is it desireable to introduce market forces into the mix, such as giving the patient a stake in costs?
4. What is your idea of a perfect solution?
5. If your perfect solution is unattainable, what is the minimum we should be willing to settle for?

I like to think I'm a bright guy, but I was flummoxed by these issues during Hillarycare, and I'm flummoxed by them now. Here's hoping this thread will become a true public policy learning tool instead of a forum for familiar political rat-a-tat.

Thanks.

EDITOR'S NOTE: What were posts 880 through 929 in this thread have been transferred to Universal Health Care in Public Affairs.

7/1

Be grateful for problems at the office. If they were less difficult, someone with less ability might have your job.


7/2

Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors – and miss.


7/3

Cole's Law: Cabbage should be thinly sliced.


7/7

Be yourself. Who else is better qualified?

Frank J. Giblin II


7/8

During his annual physical, the patient with 14 children passed with flying colors. The doctor said, "Everything looks fine. Is there anything you want to discuss?"

"Well, I was thinking about getting a vasectomy."

"That's a pretty big decision. Have you talked it over with your family?"

"Yeah, and we even had a vote. We're in favor of it, 15-1."


7/9

Now that food has replaced sex in my life, I can't even get into my own pants.


7/10

Never argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


7/13

Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl, "Will you marry me?"

The girl said, "No!"

Then the guy rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer and scotch and had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he wanted.

The end.


7/14

Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes.


7/15

I signed up for an exercise class and was told to wear loose-fitting clothes. If I had any loose-fitting clothes, I wouldn't have signed up for an exercise class.


7/16

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

-- PJ O'Rourke


7/17

A Catholic man enters the confessional box. He notices on one side a fully equipped bar with Guinness on tap. On the other wall is a dazzling array of fine Cuban cigars. The priest enters.

"Father, forgive me, for it's been a very long time since my last confession. But I must say the confessional box is much more inviting these days."

"Get out," the priest replies. "You're on my side."


7/20

Committee: An assembly that takes minutes and wastes hours.


7/21

Financial Dictionary

Liquidity: This is when you look at your portfolio and wet your pants.


7/22

I know God will not give me more than I can handle. I just wish he didn't trust me so much

-- Mother Teresa


7/23

Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.

-- Ralph Waldo Emerson


7/24

Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation.


7/27

Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.


7/28

Constant use will wear out anything – especially friends.


7/29

Hinduism: Holy Cow! Is it your birthday?
Taoism: It’s everybody’s birthday.
Buddhism: If your birthday party was held in the forest and nobody came, would it make a sound?
Existentialism: Your birthday means nothing.
Sarcasm: You don’t look half bad for someone twice your age.


7/30

Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape.

-- Michael McGriff


7/31

By trying, we can easily endure adversity. Another man’s, I mean.

-- Mark Twain

Editor's note:

A member alert about this thread alleges some recent posts have taken a personal turn. While that is true, the tone of the posts is measured and civil, and the nature of the disagreement seems to justify the exchange. The person who initiated the discusson appears not to be overly offended by it and is acquitting herself capably. I appreciate the member report, but I conclude there is no need to intervene.

6/1

You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.


6/2

A good relationship doesn't depend on how well we understand someone but on how well we understand the misunderstandings.


6/3

A bicycle can't stand on its own because it's two-tired.


6/4

Abraham Lincoln was discussing how the North must treat the South after the Civil War. Someone suggested it was important to destroy our enemies. Do I not destroy them, Abe replied, when I make them my friends?


6/5

A camel is a horse designed by committee.


6/8

Bad planning on your part does not automatically constitute an emergency on my part.


6/9

Beautiful young people are works of nature. Beautiful old people are works of art.


6/10

Be bold in what you stand for. Be careful in what you fall for.


6/11

Before I got married, I had six theories about how to raise children. Now I have six children and no theories.

-- John Wilmot


6/12

Be good, or at least be good at it.


6/15

Recently I was asked to play in a golf tournament. At first I said, "Naaahhh! I already play three times a week."

Then they told me the tournament was for blind and handicapped kids.

"Hell," I thought, "I could win this thing…"


6/16

Celibacy is not an inherited proclivity.


6/17

Changing one thing for the better is as good as proving thousands of things are wrong.


6/18

Cheerfulness is contagious, but don't wait to catch it from others.


6/19

For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.


6/22

Birds: One of the few animals you eat before they are born and after they're dead.


6/23

One day the old German Shepherd starts chasing rabbits and before long, discovers that he's lost. Wandering about, he notices a leopard heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch.

Noticing some bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the leopard is about to leap, the old German Shepherd exclaims loudly, "Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder if there are any more around here?"

Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, and he slinks away into the trees

Meanwhile, a young monkey who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the leopard. So he waves the cat over, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the leopard. But the German Shepherd has overheard it all.

The young leopard is furious at being made a fool of and says, "Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving canine!"

Now the old German Shepherd sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his back. He sits with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn't seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old German Shepherd says...

"Where's that darn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!"


Moral of this story: Don't mess with old dogs. Age and skill will always overcome youth and treachery., because BS and brilliance only come with age and experience.


6/24

Childhood: That wonderful time of life when all you have to do to lose weight is take a bath.


6/25

Children are natural mimics. They act like their parents, no matter how much we try to teach them good manners.


6/26

Note to Dubya…

Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are – you aren't.

-- Margaret Thatcher


6/29

Believe in miracles, but don't count on them.


6/30

Children in the back seats of cars cause accidents. Accidents in the back seats of cars cause children.

5/1

The Nobel Peace Prize Goes To…

The husband who, upon forgetting his wife's birthday, said, "How do you expect me to remember your birthday when you never look any older?"


5/4

A dog in his kennel barks at his fleas. A dog hunting does not notice them.


5/5

Dog Think

These people I live with feed me, love me, give me a warm place to sleep. They must be Gods!


Cat Think

These people I live with feed me, love me, give me a warm place to sleep. I must be God!


5/6

A dog who attends a flea circus is likely to steal the whole show.


5/7

Adolescence and snow are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough.


5/8

A dream is just a dream. A goal is a dream with a plan and a deadline.

-- Harvey Mackay


5/11

A drop of ink can make millions think…


5/12

A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.


5/13

A Democrat takes money from the rich and votes from the poor to protect them from the rich.


5/14

A celebrity is someone who works all his life to be famous and then wears sunglasses so as not to be recognized.


5/18

City: a large community where people are lonesome together.


5/19

A rural clergyman, having enjoyed a hearty chicken dinner at the home of a parishioner, gazed out the window and said, “That rooster seems a proud and happy bird.”

“He should be,” the host replied. “His oldest son just entered the ministry”


5/20

A closed mind is a good thing to lose


5/21

Committee: A group of people who individually can do nothing, but who decide collectively that nothing can be done.


5/22

A computer beat me at chess. But it was no match for me at kick-boxing.


5/26

A cigarette is a pinch of tobacco, wrapped in paper, with fire at one end and a fool at the other.

5/27

667: Neighbor of The Beast.


5/28

Most men kiss their wives goodbye when they leave the house. The rest kiss their houses goodbye when they leave the wife.


5/29

A babysitter is a teenager acting like an adult while the parents are out acting like teenagers.

4/1

Junk is something you have kept for years and throw away three weeks before you need it.


4/2

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.


4/3

Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.


4/6

By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends.


4/7

Thou shalt not weigh more than thy refrigerator.


4/8

Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.


4/10

It is not the jeans that make your butt look fat.


4/13

I drink to make other people interesting.

-- George Jean Nathan


4/14

Texbonics

Munts – A calendar division of 28 to 31 days.
Thank – To cognitively process.
Ranch – Useful hand tool.
Far – A conflagration.
Bare – A sudsy alcoholic beverage.


4/15

A fool and his money are soon partying.

-- Stephen Wright


4/16

Did Noah keep his bees in archives?

-- George Carlin


4/17

Alright, brain, I don't like you, and you don't like me. So let's just do this, and I'll get back to killing you with beer.

-- Homer Simpson


4/20

The stupid neither forgive nor forget. The naive forgive and forget. The wise forgive but do not forget.

-- Thomas Szasz


4/21

Adult: A person who has stopped growing at both ends and has begun growing in the middle.


4/22

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't.

-- Erica Jong


4/23

A father is someone who carries pictures where his money used to be.


4/24

A conservative is a politician who wants to keep what the liberals fought for a generation ago.


4/27

After all is said and done, more is said than done.


4/28

Acquaintance: A person we know well enough to borrow from, but not well enough to lend to.


4/29

A true crisis is when you can’t say, “Let’s forget the whole thing.”


4/30

A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

3/2

Sex without love is an empty experience, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best.

-- Woody Allen


3/3

I recently read that love is entirely a matter of chemistry. That must be why my wife treats me like toxic waste.

-- David Bissonette


3/4

Denny's New Octuplet Slam Breakfast:

You get eight eggs, no sausage, and everyone else in the restaurant has to pay the bill.


3/5

I'm multi-talented. I can talk and annoy you at the same time.


3/6

You Know You're Getting Older When…

-- Your potted plants stay alive.
-- You hear your favorite song on the elevator.
-- You carry an umbrella.
-- Older relatives feel comfortable telling sex jokes around you.
-- You don't know what time Taco Bell closes anymore.


3/9

T-shirt Message:

Objects under this shirt are larger than they appear.


3/10

No matter how lovesick a woman is, she shouldn't take the first pill that comes along.

-- Joyce Brothers


3/11

You know you're getting older when dinner and the movie is entire date instead of the beginning of one.


3/12

You know you're getting older when a four-dollar bottle of wine is no longer "pretty good stuff."


3/13

Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no water, a vital ingredient in beer.


3/16

If you are too open-minded, your brains will fall out.


3/17

Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.


3/18

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.


3/19

If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you have never tried before.


3/20

My idea of housework is to sweep the room with a glance.


3/23

Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.


3/24

It is easier to get forgiveness than permission.


3/25

If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip.


3/26

A conscience is what hurts when all of your other parts feel so good.


3/27

A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand.


3/30

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


3/31

Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.

2/2

Houston Driving Rule

Highway construction signs are carefully positioned to tell you about road closures immediately after you pass the last chance to exit, but just before the traffic begins to back up.


2/3

Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

-- Will Rogers


2/4

You Know You're Getting Old When…

You look forward to a dull evening.


2/5

I used to be a schizophrenic, but we're OK now.


2/6

Sometimes you get.....and sometimes you get got.

-- Will Rogers


2/9

You're sitting on the bus and suddenly have a gas attack. Fortunately the music is very loud, so you time your releases to coincide with its crescendos.

As you walk to the front of the bus to leave, the looks on everyone's faces makes you realize...

...you've been listening to your iPod.


2/10

You Know You're Getting Old When…

…You look forward to a dull evening.


2/11

The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with watches you from the mirror every morning.

-- Will Rogers


2/12

Love is a fire. But whether it is going to warm your hearth or burn down your house, you can never tell.

-- Joan Crawford


2/13

Houston Driving Rule

Highway construction signs are carefully positioned to tell you about road closures immediately after you pass the last chance to exit, but just before the traffic begins to back up.


2/16

John Roberts has a new job title. He's now the "Justice Chief of the Court Supreme."


2/17

Love is the answer, but while you're waiting for the answer, sex raises some pretty good questions.

-- Woody Allen


2/18

Better to have loved a short man than never to have loved a tall.

-- David Chambless


2/19

A man in love is incomplete until he is married. Then he's finished.

-- Zsa Zsa Gabor


2/20

To keep your marriage brimming
With love in the wedding cup,
Whenever you're wrong, admit it
Whenever you're right, shut up.

-- Ogden Nash


2/23

Connubial Safety Tip

No husband has ever been shot while washing dishes.


2/24

Henny Lives!

You can't buy love, but you can pay heavily for it.


2/25

Where there is marriage without love, there will be love without marriage.


2/26

You know you're getting old when you sink your teeth into a steak and they stay there.


2/27

I'm one of those bad things that happen to good people.

1/5/09

Irish Ode to Beer

Of all my favorite things to do
The utmost is to have a brew

My love grows for my foamy friend
With each thirst-quenching elbow bend

Beer's so frothy, smooth and cold
It's paradise, pure liquid gold

Yes, beer means many things to me…
That's all for now – I gotta pee!


1/6

It's Nice Getting Older

My supply of brain cells is now down to a manageable size.


1/7

One Advantage of Getting Older

Someone else will have the unpleasant task of burying your pets.


1/8

Advantages of Going to Work Naked

-- Keeps those creepy guys in marketing from looking down your blouse.
-- You can see if it's like the dream.
-- Diverts attention from the fact you came to work drunk.
-- Gives "bad hair day" a whole new meaning.
-- No one steals your chair.


1/9

Three-Legged Dog Walks Into a Bar…

He sidles up to the rail, orders whiskey and says, "I'm looking for the man who shot my paw."


1/12

Uh-Oh!

China has more English speakers than the United States.


1/13

Irish Toast

May you live to be a hundred years – with one extra year to repent.


1/14

The Buddhist who refused his dentist's Novocain said he wished to transcend dental medication.


1/15

I sent ten entries to the local paper's pun contest, hoping at least one would win a prize. Unfortunately, no pun in ten did.


1/16

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.

-- Will Rogers


1/20

Five Things You'll Never Hear a Texan Say

1. You can't feed that to the dog.
2. Hey, here's an episode of "Hee Haw" we haven't seen.
3. Those shorts oughta be a little longer, darlin'.
4. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.
5. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.


1/21

Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

-- Will Rogers


1/22

Life in Retirement

My wife said, "Whatcha doing today?"

I said, "Nothing."

She said, "You did that yesterday."

I said, "I didn't finish."


1/23

Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll enjoy it a second time.

-- Will Rogers


1/26

A Survey of Driving Styles:

Chicago: One hand on wheel, one hand on horn.
New Jersey: One hand on wheel, one finger out window.
New York: One hand on wheel, one finger out window, cutting across all lanes of traffic.
Boston: One hand on wheel, one hand on newspaper, foot solidly on accelerator.
Toronto: Both hands clenched on steering wheel, driver staring directly forward, cutting in front of you and slowing down to 40 in a 60 zone then looking in rearview mirror in wonder as to why
the car behind is flashing high beams.
Los Angeles: One hand on wheel, one hand on nonfat double decaf cappuccino, cradling cell phone, brick on accelerator with gun in lap.
Ohio, but driving in California: Both hands on wheel, eyes shut, both feet on brake, quivering in terror.
Italy: Both hands in air and gesturing, both feet on accelerator, head turned to talk to someone in back seat.
Seattle: One hand on latte, one knee on wheel, cradling cell phone, foot on brake, mind on game.
Texas: One hand on wheel, one hand on hunting rifle, alternating between both feet being on the accelerator and both feet on the brake, throwing a McDonald's bag out the window.
West Virginia: Four-wheel drive pickup truck, shotgun mounted in rear window, beer cans on floor, squirrel tails attached to antenna.
Florida: Two hands gripping wheel, blue hair barely visible above window level, driving 35 on the Interstate in the left lane with the left blinker on.


1/27

Signs of Fine Age

1. You keep repeating yourself.
2. You keep repeating yourself.


1/28

Five-year-old boy walks into a pharmacy and brings a box of tampons to the cashier.

“Do you know what these are used for?” the cashier asks.

“Not exactly, but I saw on TV that if you use them, you can swim, play tennis and ride a bike. Right now, I can’t do none of those.”


1/29

Houston Driving Rule

You don’t have to wait for an exit to get off a freeway. Just follow the ruts in the grass to the frontage road like everyone else. This is how Houstonians tell the DOT where exits need to be built.


1/30

Houston Driving Fact

Just because you’re in the left lane and have no room to speed up or move over doesn’t mean a Loop 610 driver won’t flash his high beams behind you because thinks he can go faster in your spot.

12/1

Men are all the same. They just have different faces, so you can tell them apart.


12/2

The best way to get a man to do something is to suggest he's too old for it.


12/3

A good sense of humor isn't about telling jokes as much as it's about laughing at them.


12/4

Love is blind. Marriage is a real eye-opener.


12/5

Rodney Lives!

I was so poor growing up. If I wasn't a boy, I'd have had nothing to play with.


12/8

You Know You're From Tegsis If…

The farm-to-market roads have seven lanes.


12/9

It's said that motivation doesn't last. Well, neither does bathing. That's why they're both recommended daily.


12/10

Rodney Lives!

I was such an ugly baby, my mother wouldn't breast-feed me. She told me she only liked me as a friend.


12/11

Why Growing Old is Not So Bad…

Your investment is health insurance is finally paying off.


12/12

Rodney Lives!

I went to see my doctor. "Doctor, every morning when I get up and look in the mirror, I want to throw up.What's wrong with me"

"I dunno," he said, "but your eyesight is pefect."


12/15

You Know You're from Tegsis If…

You have to turn on your air conditioner January…two days after a low of 29 degrees.


12/16

Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

-- Will Rogers


12/17

Police Sensitivity

Chicago police today reported finding a John Doe male body in the Chicago River. The victim apparently drowned due to excessive narcotics consumption. He was wearing black fishnet stockings, a red garter belt, a strap-on sexual toy, and a Bush/Cheney t-shirt. Also, a cucumber was protruding from his posterior.

Police removed the t-shirt to spare the victim's family any unnecessary embarrassment.


12/18

Holiday Eating Tip

Avoid carrot sticks. Anyone who puts carrots on a holiday buffet table knows nothing of the Christmas spirit. In fact, if you see carrots, leave immediately. Go next door, where they're serving rum balls.


12/19

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO what a ride!"


12/22

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


12/23

Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.


12/24

Most of the stuff people worry about ain't never gonna happen anyway.