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Guest Larry in Homeland CA

The Vetting Of Gov. Palin

178 posts in this topic

Concerning comparing Palin to 9-1-1, I was not. I was comparing my response at both events. When I watched the towers fall on TV, I thought "How can this happen in America?". When I watched Palin be nominated, I thought "How can this happen in America?".

Its an observation of my own shock. Whether you agree or not - its an honest report of my reaction to both disasters.

You cannot compare the loss of 3,500 lives or so to a political cheerleading session. But you can compare the loss of 3,500 lives to the loss of more than those lives in the subsequent wars. That Palin has voiced NO opinion on international affairs is troublesome.

Agreed. I apologize for misinterpreting your original statement.

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Agreed. I apologize for misinterpreting your original statement.

That's kind of you. No apology needed, but accepted with dignity!

Speaking of which, who compared me to Joe McQuade? I gotta say, I'm a LOT better looking than Joe - and have bigger boobs. (raspberries)

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Listening to Obama's remarks will reveal that it's clear his lipstick comment was NOT directed at Sarah Palin any more than McCain's remark was aimed at Hillary. Regarding book burning, here's the FactCheck money quote on that topic: "She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term." http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html On job security, if reports are true that the trooper in question really did threaten Palin family members, drive drunk, taser his 10 year old step son and so forth, it shouldn't have been necessary for Sarah to raise the issue---the guy should have been long gone. Or are liberals here now in the business of defending renegade cops? IMO, she shouldn't have asked about him; she should have DEMANDED his gun and badge.

Sorry Michael, but a "what if" question about banning books is very revealing about Palin. It says that she was thinking about it, and that is not very admirable in my opinion. As I said before and can and have provided proof of that, the ONLY reason that librarian was not fired by Palin is that at least a hundred people whose jobs were not threatened by Palin came to the librarian's defense. Period. Only then did she change her mind about firing her.

If Palin was aware, and she most certainly was aware of the activities of her brother in law, (how could she not as mayor of Wasilla and sister in law of the trooper, why then did she wait until the custody battle between the trooper and her husband to make an issue about him? Does that not make you wonder about her integrity? It sure does me, and I am sure I'm not alone. Bear in mind the "tasering" incident was done with the Palin family in attendance, with very low amounts of electric shock involved, with no darts, just little clips and the kid loved it and laughed about it with the family and with his friends. And the child was wrapped by the family in quilts and pillows so that he wouldn't hurt himself. Poor judgment? Sure. But why did the family at the time think it was cute and harmless? They all had a good laugh about it. Why did no one present object to it when it was happening?

The Palin family then, including Palin's husband who we still know next to nothing about and staff made at least twenty four calls to try to get the trooper fired, again only after the custody battle had begun. When that didn't work Palin fired the person who could make that firing decision and has recently tried to twist that into "he was fired because he disagreed with me" on budget issues. Please. That is just plain lame and nobody being honest would disagree.

So I'm afraid that that dog just won't hunt.

It was classic Palin throwing her weight around to get what she wanted, in other words abuse of power, plain and simple.

Edited by Larry in Homeland CA

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Nonsense. If your surmisal were accurate, you'd have evidence of attempts to ban or to replace the librarian. You have neither. Yet you are trying to allege official misconduct. If you have evidence for misconduct, present it. If not, raise yourself above this sort of nonsense. Protect your cred.

Check this out Michael, I had posted it while you were gone and I'm sure you didn't see it. This is a letter from a woman who lives in Wasilla and has known Palin for a long long time. I think you will find it illuminating and is worth posting twice for those who may have missed it. I will have to sign off for now, I can no longer type. Sorry about that. [what is bold was made so by me.]

From Alaska:

A note to all by Anne Kilkenny

Dear friends,

So many people have asked me about what I know about Sarah Palin in the

last 2 days that I decided to write something up . . .

Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in

common: their gender and their good looks. :)

You have my permission to forward this to your friends/email contacts

with my name and email address attached, but please do not post it on

any websites, as there are too many kooks out there . . .

Thanks,

Anne

[ Note by web_admin: This was already posted on Washington Independent

comments area and was meant by the author to be read by many, but

readers need sourcing. The NY Times has talked with Anne since. ]

ABOUT SARAH PALIN

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992.

Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a

first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her

father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a

first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more

City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the

residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular

girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and

won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because

she is a "babe".

It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She

kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents

for seven months.

She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby.

There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.

She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.

She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out

there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.

Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a

champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly

sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his

work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or

so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their

major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything

like that of native Alaskans.

Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.

She's smart.

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000

(at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about

670,000 residents.

During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running

this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been

pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had

gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had

given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a “fiscal conservative”. During her 6

years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over

33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the

City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation

(1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a

regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she

promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they

benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration

weren’t enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed

money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it

with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage

the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said

she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a

new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a

multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece

of property that the City didn’t even have clear title to, that was

still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers

involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the

community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it

would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that

could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office

redecorated more than once.

These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus

in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will

make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she

proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.

In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she

recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while

she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's

surplus, borrow for needs.

She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas

or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by

her or her staff. Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the

basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected

City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from

the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents

rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's

attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew

her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the

Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the “old boy’s club” when she first ran for

Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin

fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as

Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people,

creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally

grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power

to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the

case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he “intimidated”

her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top

cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure

and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that

an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't

fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation

for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen

contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she

later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to

replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded

for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew

her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in

help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town

introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council

became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She

abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t

like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.

Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything

publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got

the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one

of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no

background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great

job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the

high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the

structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this

Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party)

engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some

undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all

her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and

garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a

gutsy fighter against the “old boys’ club” when she dramatically quit,

exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from

Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel

politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the “bridge to

nowhere” after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget

guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing

projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative

action restored most of these projects--which had been vetoed simply

because she was not aware of their importance--but with the unobservant

she had gained a reputation as “anti-pork”.

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party

leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated

them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a

fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah.

They call her “Sarah Barracuda” because of her unbridled ambition and

predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly

stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made

point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's

mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and

experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.

As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package

of legislation known as “AGIA” that forced the oil companies to march

to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife

Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to

global warming. She campaigned “as a private citizen” against a state

initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from

pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the

state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s

lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior’s decision to list polar

bears as threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a

heartbeat away from being President.

There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more

knowledgeable and experienced than she.

However, there’s a lot of people who have underestimated her and are

regretting it.

CLAIM VS FACT

•“Hockey mom”: true for a few years

•“PTA mom”: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary

school, not since

•“NRA supporter”: absolutely true

•social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill

that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships

(said she did this because it was unconsitutional).

•pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to

promote it.

•“Pro-life”: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby

BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life

legislation

•“Experienced”: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has

residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska.

No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on

supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city

administrator to run town of about 5,000.

•political maverick: not at all

•gutsy: absolutely!

•open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at

explaining actions.

•has a developed philosophy of public policy: no

•”a Greenie”: no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores

and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.

•fiscal conservative: not by my definition!

•pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city

without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built

streets to early 20th century standards.

•pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on

residents

•pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city

government in Wasilla’s history.

•pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union

doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim

that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

WHY AM I WRITING THIS?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed

voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting

programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny +

Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local

government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.

Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen

when good people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because

few have gone to as many City Council meetings.

Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out

of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no

fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will

cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.

Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100

or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah's

attempt at censorship.

Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to

say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.

CAVEATS

I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in

spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor)

from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of

Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust

for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible

for a private person to get any info out of City Hall--they are

swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the

population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The

day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the

current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was

5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to

2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90’s.

Anne Kilkenny

August 31, 2008

======= End of Anne Kilkenny's letter =======

Edited by Larry in Homeland CA

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That's kind of you. No apology needed, but accepted with dignity!

Speaking of which, who compared me to Joe McQuade? I gotta say, I'm a LOT better looking than Joe - and have bigger boobs. (raspberries)

Let's see the proof.

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Palin had no authority to "demand his gun and badge." He was a union employee. An investigation was completed, and he received a suspension for his actions. Her problem was that she could not leave it alone. Yesterday there was the report that the judge in the divorce case admonishing Palin and her family for the "harrassment" of Wooten, going so far as to call it child abuse. Now today...

"Sarah Palin was counseled by an ethics adviser on the gravity of the allegations against her in the burgeoning Trooper-Gate scandal -- and encouraged to apologize -- letters reviewed by the Wall Street Journal show.

A former U.S. attorney, Wevley Shea, wrote two letters (pdf) to the Alaska governor, once in July and once in early August, stating that Palin's "'political advisors' have given you poor cousel; the situation is now grave. . . I am extremely concerned about certain 'wolves' if my recommended action is not taken immediately."

Shea gave the following recommendations to Palin in a letter dated July 24:

Apologize for not personally terminating Commissioner of Public Safety Walt Monegan. Apologize for your statements regarding Commissioner Monegan in Press Release no. 08-125. Apologize, with Todd, for overreaching or peceived overreaching on Trooper Mike Wooten. Terminate any "state advisor" who addressed Trooper Wooten with Commissioner Monegan. Withdraw former Kenai Police Chief Chuck Kopp's name as Commissioner of Public Safety. Do not, in writing [as in Press Release no. 08-125], "define" the credibility of state employees.

Palin had previously commissioned Shea in late 2006 to co-write an ethics report recommending new financial-disclosure rules for elected and appointed statehouse officials."

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Palin had no authority to "demand his gun and badge." He was a union employee. An investigation was completed, and he received a suspension for his actions. Her problem was that she could not leave it alone. Yesterday there was the report that the judge in the divorce case admonishing Palin and her family for the "harrassment" of Wooten, going so far as to call it child abuse. Now today...

"Sarah Palin was counseled by an ethics adviser on the gravity of the allegations against her in the burgeoning Trooper-Gate scandal -- and encouraged to apologize -- letters reviewed by the Wall Street Journal show.

A former U.S. attorney, Wevley Shea, wrote two letters (pdf) to the Alaska governor, once in July and once in early August, stating that Palin's "'political advisors' have given you poor cousel; the situation is now grave. . . I am extremely concerned about certain 'wolves' if my recommended action is not taken immediately."

Shea gave the following recommendations to Palin in a letter dated July 24:

Apologize for not personally terminating Commissioner of Public Safety Walt Monegan. Apologize for your statements regarding Commissioner Monegan in Press Release no. 08-125. Apologize, with Todd, for overreaching or peceived overreaching on Trooper Mike Wooten. Terminate any "state advisor" who addressed Trooper Wooten with Commissioner Monegan. Withdraw former Kenai Police Chief Chuck Kopp's name as Commissioner of Public Safety. Do not, in writing [as in Press Release no. 08-125], "define" the credibility of state employees.

Palin had previously commissioned Shea in late 2006 to co-write an ethics report recommending new financial-disclosure rules for elected and appointed statehouse officials."

Troopergate works to Palin's advantage, and that's not just me that's saying that, it's liberal democrat and former presidential candidate, Mike Gravel from Alaska. (Here's a link to a video of the interview. It's a crack up because the lefty Pacifica jocks assumed he would blast Palin and he throws them for a loop when he comes to her defense). This whole thing will just enhance her image as someone who gets the job done and does what's right for the people no matter whose toes she has to step on. And btw, I heard he got caught drinking in his squad car twice. If his union is able to protect his job after even after that the problem is with the unions, not Sarah Palin.

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Of course you were alleging misconduct. Unless you think the arbitrary pulling of books out of a public library isn't misconduct. Which is it?

It's there in black and white. I said she considered it and did not act on it. Larry reports an uprising of comrades thrwarted any misconduct. Whether it did or didn't, that she even considered banning books on her own initiative is revelatory.

It's well within the governor's scope of responsibilities to ensure that rogue cops on the state's payroll are eliminated, don't you think? What would you think if this guy had been conducting himself in the same way but with another family? If he weren't collared for that sort of behavior, wouldn't you be raising cane about dereliction of duty of his chain of command?
If Palin was aware, and she most certainly was aware of the activities of her brother in law...why then did she wait until the custody battle between the trooper and her husband to make an issue about him? Does that not make you wonder about her integrity?

But why did the family at the time think (the Tasering) it was cute and harmless? They all had a good laugh about it. Why did no one present object to it when it was happening?

The Palin family then, including Palin's husband who we still know next to nothing about and staff made at least twenty four calls to try to get the trooper fired, again only after the custody battle had begun. When that didn't work Palin fired the person who could make that firing decision...

Palin had no authority to "demand his gun and badge." He was a union employee. An investigation was completed, and he received a suspension for his actions. Her problem was that she could not leave it alone. Yesterday there was the report that the judge in the divorce case admonishing Palin and her family for the "harrassment" of Wooten, going so far as to call it child abuse. Now today...

"Sarah Palin was counseled by an ethics adviser on the gravity of the allegations against her in the burgeoning Trooper-Gate scandal -- and encouraged to apologize -- letters reviewed by the Wall Street Journal show.

A former U.S. attorney, Wevley Shea, wrote two letters (pdf) to the Alaska governor, once in July and once in early August, stating that Palin's "'political advisors' have given you poor cousel; the situation is now grave. . . I am extremely concerned about certain 'wolves' if my recommended action is not taken immediately."

Hmmmmm.

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Re the "pitbull with lipstick comment": Although it is true that pit bulls have a reputation for violent behavior, my daughter has one, and he is as sweet and well-behaved an animal as I've ever seen. So I kind of found Palin's comment offensive to pitbulls!

Re the feminist criticism of Palin's decision to agree to the VP spot when she's got kind of a high maintenance family life: All I can say is that I've got two grown children who are (usually) less needy than a newborn (or a pregnant teen) and a relatively low-pressure full-time job and I'm still half crazy from the stress - I would NEVER want to be VP!

Hi NJR and once again welcome to the fray. By all accounts the Palin's are juggling their family and professional responsibilities just fine. Todd Palin in particular should be an inspiration to all those advocating that we husbands roll up our sleves and carry a bit more of the household load. As for the feminists critiques, you'll have to pardon my suspicion that they are motivated more by concern for the polls than concern for Gov. Palin's kids (who seem to be doing just dandy).

Edited by J. Patterson

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It's there in black and white. I said she considered it and did not act on it. Larry reports an uprising of comrades thrwarted any misconduct. Whether it did or didn't, that she even considered banning books on her own initiative is revelatory.

What Larry reported was a letter that 90% of the country has read and that was written by a Democrat enemy of Sarah's. The rest of the story is that all department heads were asked to resign, then hired back. Same exact thing happened to the librarian and there is no evidence that Sarah tried to ban anything or wanted to ban anything. As I've said before, we have in Dallas, I'm sure you have in Houston and just about everywhere else has operating protocols concerning how offensive materials are banned from public libraries or segregated from open shelf areas accessible to minors. For a city leader to be criticized for trying to find out how the process works is ridiculous. If you have, or if Larry has evidence, present it. Inquiries about processes are a far cry from a book burning. Trying to equate them is cheap partisan bull poop.

Edited by Michael Major

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Palin had no authority to "demand his gun and badge." He was a union employee. An investigation was completed, and he received a suspension for his actions. Her problem was that she could not leave it alone. Yesterday there was the report that the judge in the divorce case admonishing Palin and her family for the "harrassment" of Wooten, going so far as to call it child abuse. Now today...

"Sarah Palin was counseled by an ethics adviser on the gravity of the allegations against her in the burgeoning Trooper-Gate scandal -- and encouraged to apologize -- letters reviewed by the Wall Street Journal show.

A former U.S. attorney, Wevley Shea, wrote two letters (pdf) to the Alaska governor, once in July and once in early August, stating that Palin's "'political advisors' have given you poor cousel; the situation is now grave. . . I am extremely concerned about certain 'wolves' if my recommended action is not taken immediately."

Shea gave the following recommendations to Palin in a letter dated July 24:

Apologize for not personally terminating Commissioner of Public Safety Walt Monegan. Apologize for your statements regarding Commissioner Monegan in Press Release no. 08-125. Apologize, with Todd, for overreaching or peceived overreaching on Trooper Mike Wooten. Terminate any "state advisor" who addressed Trooper Wooten with Commissioner Monegan. Withdraw former Kenai Police Chief Chuck Kopp's name as Commissioner of Public Safety. Do not, in writing [as in Press Release no. 08-125], "define" the credibility of state employees.

Palin had previously commissioned Shea in late 2006 to co-write an ethics report recommending new financial-disclosure rules for elected and appointed statehouse officials."

Yup, she ruffled a lot of feathers, didn't she? I hope she does the same thing in DC.

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Depends, I suppose, upon the standard one has set for handling family responsibilities.

On the process side, over-involvement in career could be seen to be detrimental to family.

As for outcomes ... teenage pregnancy seems to clearly indicate a failure of abstinence education.

Perhaps Palin herself has not been outspoken on either of these issues. But you have to wonder how her family life is viewed by those who have been.

Hi CO, hope this finds you well.

On the process side, to be fair to women, I feel I must disagree. (at least to some degree.) If I were in the position of having five minor children, and were I a woman, (or a single father for that matter) I would not consider full time public office, or a full time job for that matter, if I could swing it financially. I think kids who are young need full time parents, or parents who share the load. In my opinion, too many kids grow up without enough (if any) parental supervision to keep them out of trouble and to teach them what kids need to know at such an important developmental stage in their lives.

However, in Palin's situation, given that the children have both their father (who admittedly is not home much between work and his racing hobby) she does have her parents to help with the kids. Not ideal, but not in my opinion a deal breaker for her to pursue public life. Everyone's value systems are different I suppose.

On the outcome side, I do agree with you, perhaps her busy schedule did not permit her to spend enough time educating her own child, (and we have all seen the result) much less to decide for others what their childrens sex education should be.

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What Larry reported was a letter that 90% of the country has read and that was written by a Democrat enemy of Sarah's. The rest of the story is that all department heads were asked to resign, then hired back. Same exact thing happened to the librarian and there is no evidence that Sarah tried to ban anything or wanted to ban anything. As I've said before, we have in Dallas, I'm sure you have in Houston and just about everywhere else has operating protocols concerning how offensive materials are banned from public libraries or segregated from open shelf areas accessible to minors. For a city leader to be criticized for trying to find out how the process works is ridiculous. If you have, or if Larry has evidence, present it. Inquiries about processes are a far cry from a book burning. Trying to equate them is cheap partisan bull poop.

Evidence is used daily in courts of law. Some is believed by jurors, some is not. I happen to believe the woman who cared enough to write that letter. She has a long history of community and political involvement in that small town. That can be easily verified as I had earlier proposed and as she herself had proposed in her letter to reassure those who would believe her to be a party hack.

I don't buy that she is politically motivated, her letter simply has the ring of truth about it, and I think most who have read her letter agree. People do not generally inquire about banning books unless they have something in mind along those lines. Why else would they? Why makes you think this person is an enemy of Palin's? I have seen nothing to suggest she has political ambitions herself, if she did I am quite sure the Republicans would have found it and rammed it down her throat. She seemed to be very careful to point out the good and bad she saw in Palin and her actions.

Were I a juror, I would find her testimony to be believable, especially when she brought in the other 99 or so people in that town that fought to keep the librarian in her job. If you believe all of what we are saying is "bullpoop", well you are entitled to your opinion and we to ours. I have seen plenty of "bullpoop" in this election cycle, and most of it has come from the Republican side. I do not hear McCain condemning the nonsensical attack ads against Obama, unless they were outrageously beyond the pale, and then very little unless he thought they would come back and bite him in the behind. I hear very little in the way of actual ideas from his campaign, (except trying to steal the message of change in government from Obama) and have noted with interest how his campaign is and has been doing all they possibly can to keep reporters away from Palin. What are they afraid of?

Honestly, why would they not want her to talk about her ideas unless they were terrified about what she may say? All she has done so far is repeat her coronation speech, not offer anything new.

Edited by Larry in Homeland CA

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For a city leader to be criticized for trying to find out how the process works is ridiculous.

This spin is unsupported by the narrative or common sense.

If you have, or if Larry has evidence, present it.

Been there. Done that.

Inquiries about processes are a far cry from a book burning.

Never said otherwise.

Trying to equate them is cheap partisan bull poop.

Never been there. Never done that.

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Depends, I suppose, upon the standard one has set for handling family responsibilities.

Proof is in the pudding I suppose. The Palin's are by all accounts a close-knit loving family whose children are well cared for and nurtured in unconditional love.

On the process side, over-involvement in career could be seen to be detrimental to family.

Blanket statements like this are ridiculous (and a recent addition to the liberal lexicon). It wasn't so long ago that large families were the norm and both parents worked from dawn to dusk and they managed to raise the next generation. The Palin's in that tradition, have a huge extended family who share each other's burdens and responsibilities.

As for outcomes ... teenage pregnancy seems to clearly indicate a failure of abstinence education.

A bigoted statement borne of the (false) assumption that Bristol Palin received abstinence only education. She was educated in Alaska public schools, where contraceptive based sex ed is mandatory. One could just as easily (and just as foolishly) chock her pregnancy up to a failure of contraceptive based sex-ed. No?

And those here who have opined that the pregnancy is indicative of a parental failure are evidently of the opinion that a seventeen year old girl should be under constant parental supervision. Do you know anyone who raises kids this way? If so, perhaps you should council them on the foolishness of not allowing a young adult who may be a year away from leaving home any chance to make mistakes and learn from them. Better those mistakes occur now, while in the protective environs of the family, than to have no experience in decision making until out in the cruel world.

Perhaps Palin herself has not been outspoken on either of these issues. But you have to wonder how her family life is viewed by those who have been.

Oh, one needn't wonder. The wagging tongues of those who hated her from the instant they laid eyes on her have left no doubt about their views.

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This spin is unsupported by the narrative or common sense.
Actually, this is the one fact that everyone agrees on. Sarah Palin inquired from the librarian what established protocols were regarding requests to remove objectionable materials from the library. What is unsupported is the allegation that she wanted to ban anything. You say you and Larry have offered evidence that she did want to ban, but that is not borne out by the record. You guys are trying to equate the asking of process questions with actual attempts to ban books. That is dishonest spin unsupported by evidence.

Once again, if you have evidence that Sarah wanted to ban something, present it.

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I hope my third response to the same points will be the charm. If I cease answering them, I urge readers not to conclude I'm acquiescing in this disagreement.

Actually, this is the one fact that everyone agrees on. Sarah Palin inquired from the librarian what established protocols were regarding requests to remove objectionable materials from the library. What is unsupported is the allegation that she wanted to ban anything. You say you and Larry have offered evidence that she did want to ban, but that is not borne out by the record. You guys are trying to equate the asking of process questions with actual attempts to ban books. That is dishonest spin unsupported by evidence.

Once again, if you have evidence that Sarah wanted to ban something, present it.

I have never equated the Palin questions with an actual book ban. That straw man is MM's creation.

I find Palin's repetition of this hypothetical question pretty plain evidence of an interest on her part in pulling titles on her own initiative. It's unlikely it would have come out of the blue once, much less twice or a third time. The protest of several of the librarian's supporters also raises fair questions about what was transpiring.

MM, not suprisingly given his bias in this election, looks at all this evidence and sees no reason for concern. He's entitled to his opinion, but I think mine makes more sense.

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I find Palin's repetition of this hypothetical question pretty plain evidence of an interest on her part in pulling titles on her own initiative. It's unlikely it would have come out of the blue once, much less twice or a third time. The protest of several of the librarian's supporters also raises fair questions about what was transpiring.

It didn't come out of the blue. At the time the question was raised, the library was in the midst of reviewing its policy on that very issue! Excepted from a contemporaneous article from the Wasilla local paper:

The timing of the issue comes at a time when Emmons [the librarian in question] is trying to get the book-challenge policies of the Wasilla Library and of the Palmer City Library in line with the Mat-Su Borough policy, revised in December of last year.

Emmons described the new borough policy as “a very good one.”

It is a step-by-step blueprint of procedures for anyone wanting to challenge the selection and availability of library material, Emmons explained. “it is a good process, and almost all public libraries have one.”

The borough's policy was revised mainly to replace the borough manager as the final decision maker with a formal Reconsideration Committee Mat-Su Borough Manager Don Moore said Saturday that changes were made, with the blessings, after a dispute that was resolved about two years ago involving a challenged book at the Big Lake Library.

Emmons said the current Wasilla policy, which she described as written in more general terms than the borough's, also worked procedurally in a book-challenge case last year. Emmons said then-council-woman Palin was distressed about the issue when it came up, indicating she was aware of the city's book-challenge policy.

It was perfectly appropriate for Palin who was getting to know her department heads and the current issues they were working to ask about the ramifications of the proposed policy change. From the same article:

Monday Palin said in a written statement she was only trying to get aquatinted with her staff at the time. “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature,” Palin added.

Emmons recalled that the Oct. 28 conversation she pulled no punches with her response to the mayor.

“She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied 'Yup',” Emmons recounted Saturday. “And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) would get involved, too.”

Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book. “I told her it would definitely be a problem the ACLU would take on then,” Emmons said

This conversation was clearly rhetorical in nature. One seriously doubts that Palin was gathering tactical intelligence for her planned march on the library.

Link to Frontiersman article

Edited by J. Patterson

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The Frontiersman article in its entirety:

By PAUL STUART

Editor's note: This story first ran in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman Dec. 18, 1996. It has been typeset and posted here to accommodate numerous requests for the story from media worldwide and curious individuals. Please note that not at any time were any books ever banned from the Wasilla city library.

WASILLA -- In the wake of strong reactions from the city's library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.”

Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association.

The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.

Emmons drew a clear distinction Saturday between the nature of Palin's inquiries and an established book-challenge policy in place in Wasilla, and in most public libraries.

“I'm not trying to suppress anyone's views,” Emmons said. “But I told her (Palin) clearly, I will fight anyone who tries to dictate what books can go on the library shelves.”

Palin said Monday she had no particular books or other material in mind when she posed the questions to Emmons.

Emmons said in the first conversation, before being sworn in as mayor, Palin briefly touched on the subject of censorship.

But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all the city's department heads as a way of expressing loyalty.

“This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy,” Emmons stressed Saturday. “She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library.”

Monday Palin said in a written statement she was only trying to get aquatinted with her staff at the time. “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature,” Palin added.

Emmons recalled that the Oct. 28 conversation she pulled no punches with her response to the mayor.

“She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied 'Yup',” Emmons recounted Saturday. “And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) would get involved, too.”

Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book. “I told her it would definitely be a problem the ACLU would take on then,” Emmons said

Asked who she thought might picket the library, Palin said Monday, “Had no one in mind ... again, the issue was discussed in the context of a professional question being asked in regards to library policy.

“All questions posed to Wasilla's library director were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city. Obviously the issue of censorship is a library question... you ask a library director that type of question,” Palin said

“Palin also said Monday censorship issues would not involve any departments other than the library.

Emmons said she has been offered help if it is ever needed on censorship issues from the state library association's Intellectual Freedom Committee and the National Freedom to Read Foundation.

Palin called Emmons into her office Monday to discuss the censorship questions again.

Palin also attended Friday's staff meeting at the library, but without mentioning censorship , Emmons said.

“I'm hoping it was just a trial balloon,” Emmons said, “because the free exchange of information is my main job, and I'll fight anyone who tries to interfere with that.”

The timing of the issue comes at a time when Emmons is trying to get the book-challenge policies of the Wasilla Library and of the Palmer City Library in line with the Mat-Su Borough policy, revised in December of last year.

Emmons described the new borough policy as “a very good one.”

It is a step-by-step blueprint of procedures for anyone wanting to challenge the selection and availability of library material, Emmons explained. “it is a good process, and almost all public libraries have one.”

The borough's policy was revised mainly to replace the borough manager as the final decision maker with a formal Reconsideration Committee Mat-Su Borough Manager Don Moore said Saturday that changes were made, with the blessings, after a dispute that was resolved about two years ago involving a challenged book at the Big Lake Library.

Emmons said the current Wasilla policy, which she described as written in more general terms than the borough's, also worked procedurally in a book-challenge case last year. Emmons said then-council-woman Palin was distressed about the issue when it came up, indicating she was aware of the city's book-challenge policy.

Emmons said in the conversations with now-Mayor Palin in October, she reminded her again that the city has a policy in place. “But it seamed clear to me that wasn't really what she was talking about anyhow,” Emmons added. “I just hope it doesn't come up again.”

Meanwhile, Emmons said she is working with borough libraries boss Bruce Urban and Palmer Library Director Janice Sanford, in the hope of getting the cities to adopt a book-challenge policy identical to the borough's.

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David Frum is a Republican strategist who has worked with McCain. He was one of the three off air who disparaged Palin, along with Chuck Todd and Peggy Noonan. He is apparently more of a patriot than a Republican, which is one of the reasons that I listen to him when he speaks. "She's under-informed and over-confident.", gee does this sound like any one else that we know? like dubya?

http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDg...GMyOWMyMmEyODQ=

David Frum's Diary

09/11 10:09 PM

Palin Reviewed

She's under-informed and over-confident.

But there was no "macaca" moment, so she survives.

Those who wish to believe in her will continue to believe in her.

As for the rest - well it's a 6 in 7 chance that McCain makes it to the end of his first term. That's pretty good!

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David Frum is a Republican strategist who has worked with McCain. He was one of the three off air who disparaged Palin, along with Chuck Todd and Peggy Noonan. He is apparently more of a patriot than a Republican, which is one of the reasons that I listen to him when he speaks. "She's under-informed and over-confident.", gee does this sound like any one else that we know? like dubya?

http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDg...GMyOWMyMmEyODQ=

David Frum's Diary

09/11 10:09 PM

Palin Reviewed

She's under-informed and over-confident.

But there was no "macaca" moment, so she survives.

Those who wish to believe in her will continue to believe in her.

As for the rest - well it's a 6 in 7 chance that McCain makes it to the end of his first term. That's pretty good!

To strengthen your point...it was gooper Mike Murphy who had the exchange with Peggy. Frum is also a conservative honest enough to be outraged. (Warning, he's an intellectual Republican, which means LIV's can ignore his inauthentic views.) Also to be ignored: Charles Krauthammer, and several National Review staffers who have reacted with intellectual integrity to this outrageous selection.

Run, Forrest, run!

Larry the Cable Guy for secretary of state!

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Yet another conservative pundit, Ross Douthat, has "seen the light".

Sarah The Unready

13 Sep 2008 11:30 am

Now that we've seen the entirety of the Palin-Gibson tete-a-tete, I concur with Rich Lowry and Rod Dreher. The most that can be said in her defense is that she kept her cool and avoided any brutal gaffes; other than that, she seemed about an inch deep on every issue outside her comfort zone. Yes, the questions were tougher than the ones that a Tim Kaine or Tim Pawlenty probably would have been handed, but they were all questions that a vice-presidential nominee needs to be able to answer. And there's no way to look at her performance as anything save supporting evidence for the non-hysterical critique of her candidacy - that it's just too much, too soon - and a splash of cold water for those of us with high hopes for her future on the national stage.

http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archive...the_unready.php

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Andrew Sullivan has a list of Sarah Palin Odd Lies (his words). He quotes what she says, and then offers the facts, and ends with "your call". In some cases there are pictures, cartoons and/or videos.

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin I: Firing Monegan

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-1.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin II: The Bridge To Nowhere

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-2.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin III: Firing Stambaugh

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-4.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin IV: Endangered Species

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-5.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin V: The Oil Pipeline

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-6.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin VI: Gays

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-7.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin VII: Climate Change

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-3.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin VII: Habeas Corpus

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of-s-9.html

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin VIII: Alaska's Energy Contribution

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ies-of--10.html

You decide.

Edited by Carol from Long Valley NJ

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Ah... the media.

NYT - "A legislative committee investigating Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has found she unlawfully abused her authority in firing the state's public safety commissioner."

CNN - "-- Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power in a state official's firing but did not violate the law, an Alaska legislative panel finds."

Unlawfully but did not violate the law. HMMM.

aC

Source: NYT - Legislative Panel - Palin Abused Authority

Source: CNN - Report: Palin abused position, broke no laws in trooper case

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